Life Beside Christ
Life Beside Christ
Walking Through Anger with Jesus | Ft. Adam Fox & David Hays
When anger consumes us and we find ourselves screaming into the night over things we can't control, where do we turn? In this deeply personal conversation, we explore what it truly means to surrender our burdens to Jesus as promised in Matthew 11:28-30.
Levi shares his struggle with overwhelming frustration and the cycle of self-recrimination that follows—how we often withdraw rather than reach out, convinced our problems shouldn't burden others. This honest admission launches us into an exploration of why surrender remains one of the most challenging spiritual disciplines, especially for those of us conditioned to be fixers and problem-solvers.
The conversation weaves through powerful stories of breaking points, from David's experience during cancer recovery to Abraham Lincoln's reflection on being "driven to his knees" when his own wisdom proved insufficient. We discuss how God sometimes uses our discomfort to move us toward surrender when gentler methods haven't worked.
We also confront the profound impact of loneliness in our spiritual journey, acknowledging that while distraction might temporarily ease our pain, true comfort comes through connection—with others and ultimately with Christ. As we reflect on Genesis 2:18 ("it is not good for man to be alone") and Ecclesiastes 4:9-12, we're reminded that simply sitting beside someone in their struggle can be more powerful than any advice we might offer.
Perhaps most surprising is our realization that showing God our unfiltered emotions—even anger—may indicate a closer relationship with Him than we realize. Just as we show our true selves to those whose love we most trust, our willingness to be authentic with God reflects a deep, if complicated, intimacy.
Have you found yourself wrestling with God over circumstances beyond your control? Join our conversation and discover how Jesus offers not an escape from life's challenges, but a fundamentally different way to carry them—no longer alone, but yoked with Him.
We love hearing from our listeners whether it's criticism, advice, or just thoughts on the conversation we had. Find us or reach out to us here:
•Email: lifebesidechristpod@gmail.com
•Instagram: @lifebesidechristpodcast
•Intro/Outro Music: "Our Days" by David Hays
welcome back to the life beside christ podcast. Uh, we have david hayes, who we had on last time, and adam fox, who we've had on before, and I appreciate both you guys being here yep, we're glad to be here.
Speaker 3:Yeah, appreciate the opportunity again.
Speaker 1:I do want to say real quick I've been back into the Laffy Taffy's lately and I still just the Banana Laffy Taffy's, just they've got to go. Adam, you're team banana, aren't you?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I like the banana. I mean.
Speaker 1:I'm not against the other flavors, but you know the banana is just so bad, it's like I don't know. It's just bad. Just everyone needs to know that it's bad. Is this your zen? No, it's just like I don't. I think, during baseball season I sometimes just need snacks. Yeah. It's like we play on turf, so we can't always have seeds. Beef jerky is one that I go to a lot, and then just other things that sound good sometimes, and right now, the past week or so, it's been Laffy Taffy's.
Speaker 3:So what color then?
Speaker 1:What's that?
Speaker 3:What color do you go for then?
Speaker 1:I just grab the like a sorted bag at casey's. Okay, so they like give you and it's, half of them are, if not more, a banana yeah, it's still like I, I, whatever, we don't have to spend more time talking about it.
Speaker 1:But, yeah, banana must be the cheapest to me, right it's just like no one else is wanting it, so we we've got to get rid of it. Yeah, that's, that's what my thought is, what's your favorite? Um, I think the green apple. Oh it's. It's grown on me this time around because it's got like some sourness to it and the others are just kind of.
Speaker 3:But the strawberry and cherry are unfortunate to a I'd go with whatever flavor the pink is, I'm not sure yeah, I think probably strawberry, probably strawberry yeah, I think probably strawberry yeah.
Speaker 1:I think cherry is the new one, and so they kind of look basically the same in the wrapper.
Speaker 2:Just so you know, cherry is always the best, so you can have your favorites.
Speaker 1:They've been really hard, though they're not soft like other Laffy Taffys. They're like really, you know, like now and laters. Yeah, you know, like now and laters. Yeah, that's like the consistency of the cherries. For some reason, it's only the cherry.
Speaker 2:But a baseball game is seven innings. You need something to last, Right. But I can't yell to the outfield when I'm trying to separate my teeth.
Speaker 1:It's okay to be wrong, anyways. Anyways, one thing that has happened since the last time I we we recorded anything is a lot of my high school players have found, um, the podcast and my social media, which is kind of like whatever, like I just post about the podcast anyways, but it's, it's definitely I knew at some point it was going to podcast anyways, but it's, it's definitely I knew at some point it was going to happen. But it's funny that I guess it took three years or two years we've been doing this somewhat um, that it's taken this long for them to at least tell me that they've found it. And, um, I've been trying to do like more on social media and I think that's where it came from. So then they'll ask me like oh god, what is it?
Speaker 1:What's the next, what's in your next podcast? Or I'm listening to it. One one could put it on like on his phone while we're riding on the bus so everyone can hear it. I was like you know, whatever, like I it To me it's good for them to hear anyways, I guess to talk about, and I honestly think some of them were actually listening to it, which is also kind of cool in that sense, I guess.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you'll have a mix. You'll have, just like any segment of society, you're going to have some kids that listen to it and go. That's Coach, listen to it. Go. That's coach, listen to him, it's funny. And then you're gonna, and, but even with them, they may hear something at some point and hadn't thought about that. And then you're gonna have others that are going to take to it right away. Um, that's good, that's great to hear yeah, it's really the point of it.
Speaker 3:Right, there is reaching many generations really yeah you have an opportunity with kids coach to you know to be able to reach out that way yeah, I'll get closer to the mic.
Speaker 2:Sorry about that yeah, I didn't listen to any podcasts when I were in high school how many existed then?
Speaker 1:yeah, no, I mean just, I'm just kidding we went to vaudeville x back then I think the telephone was still called a party line.
Speaker 3:then we had a party line.
Speaker 2:I grew up in the country and we had a party line.
Speaker 1:And most kids don't know what a party line is. Is that like with the can and the string? Yeah, but there's more than one can, and a string.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so our telephone line. If you picked up the telephone to call someone, there might be someone already on that line. Yeah, you either had to wait or there's emergency. You ask them to get off the phone and they would. But yeah, you don't see that anymore. You don't see pay phones anymore, all that stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's funny but yeah, it's been something that's like I said. It's kind of cool to see that like a few like of the 12 kids I see on a daily basis with who I have that one or two of them kind of like I know. Coach, I listened to your podcast. It's like cool that that is it's. It's like I said something I figured was going to happen at some point, just because high schoolers are just high schoolers and they try to look people up, whatever, and figured it was going to be found at some point and I expected more like kind of making fun of it, ribbing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because if you remember back when you were in high school, of course it ain't too far for you, farther for. Adam and even further for me, but If you remember back when you were in high school, of course it ain't too far for you Farther for Adam and even further for me.
Speaker 1:But you're trying to find your way, you're trying to figure out where you fit, and things change so often.
Speaker 2:Today that's what I'm going to say. In my world, everything moves slower. I grew up in the 70s, graduated in the 80s. Things move slower. You read the newspaper to get the news. Well, now it's so fast, um, and so they find something. They might listen for 10 seconds, two seconds, or they might listen for the full hour. You just don't know what's going to grab them. Um but, hopefully, hopefully, it's good things like this to grab them. And in this town most kids are good kids.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know they might give you a good natured ribbing over something but yeah they're looking to be productive someday, so that's good the.
Speaker 1:I guess the main reason I kind of was this was on my mind is because of knowing that we were recording today or soon and things that I've been dealing with. I'm like, well, if I am sharing things about myself on this podcast, I'm like, well, it's basically sharing it with high schoolers that can make of it as they want, and you know, I think that's just part of it. Um, and I'm again I'm not at all worried about it in this setting talking about my faith and Jesus in general and with you guys and stuff like that. So, but it was like, okay, well, there's going to be parts of me that I didn't intend to share, like with high schoolers that are just, it's just going to happen if, if we're going to do this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, it's kind of eyeopening that uh uh, covid, we started streaming our church services on Facebook and I had the same awakening enlightenment that anyone in the world now can hear what I'm saying. If I'm in the pulpit I'm speaking to a group of 40, but really it could be a group of 40 million. Now again, we're not getting, but anybody in the world could pick it up, like my music. Once in a while I'll get a notice that someone in Spain listened to one of my songs. It's like what? It's just an odd thing to think about.
Speaker 1:That's something that I was looking at like our podcasting, like dashboard today, and I I looked at the. The city with the third most listens of our whole podcast is singapore. With this, third out of every city out there is is singapore of across all of our episodes, and I was like that's so weird, I feel like, but cool. I guess too, we've had listens from Pakistan, japan, south Africa. It's just interesting and cool that people that far away from you can tune in and listen to you talk about stuff and ramble about laffy taffies it is encouraging with.
Speaker 3:You know, a number of things you see on social media or just media in general that is is so negative that can also reach that far. But when you're doing something that you know is positive and is good and you see that it's, it can also reach that far. You know that's uh, it's an encouraging thing, yeah yep, um, I want to.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna make two apologies right now to any listeners. I was definitely messing with the audio equipment the last time and somehow I turned on a button I think, specifically just my mic that like mutes, like s sounds it's. I think it's called the de-esser, and so some of my words are probably going to get cut off. If I am starting the word with an s, I think I can hear it picking up now. So sorry for the listeners that that's happening too. I will fix it for the next episode. And then the other thing is you're probably going to hear my dog whining. There's two people in here that she doesn't see very often, so she's in. The other thing is you're probably going to hear my dog whining. There's two people in here that she doesn't see very often, so she's in the other room whining a lot. So get those out of the way now.
Speaker 3:Now, when David starts whining, you can blame it on the dog that's right.
Speaker 1:So to get into, I guess, the real conversation, the last time we had a more structured episode, I guess which was, I think, the last time Brady was on we talked about Matthew 10. So we're in Matthew 11 and, like I said, like I told you two, there's things that I was trying to figure out. It's like how can I bring these up and not just be like, okay, can you guys answer these questions for me? And then it's just like I'm reading Matthew 11 the other night and the last, I don't know, three verses of Matthew 11 are like exactly what I was going to ask you guys about, anyways, I guess. So I guess we're in Matthew 11, but I'm going to kind of jump down to the end, to begin with Matthew 11, verse 28. Come to me all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me. I am gentle and humble in heart and you will find rest for your souls, for my yoke is easy and my burden is light.
Speaker 1:Now, this is the part where I'm like I don't necessarily love to talk about myself and struggles, I guess, especially when people I know and see on a daily basis, um one have seen me act differently and I guess people I see and know will see me after if they listen to this.
Speaker 1:But um, I've just, I've been, I've been just. It's been really easy to be angry lately and it's it only makes me more angry when I realized that I'm being angry about things that I can't control. And then I beat myself up about it and I just kind of like shut down because I'm like, okay, then this, this isn't other people's problem, I'm not going to try to push it on people and I just kind of like shut down because I'm like, okay, then this, this isn't other people's problem, I'm not gonna try to push it on people and I'm just gonna shut down. But then I started acting differently and I'm a crappy friend because I shut down and all this stuff. It just makes you feel worse about yourself and builds on itself yeah yeah, well, you're one.
Speaker 2:You're a thinker and probably an overthinker similar to Brady and I I've seen you on the golf course Overthinkers. Bad shots affect way more than a Carter, for instance, although Carter can be bothered by a bad golf shot as well. Right, so that's one thing. We all go through these things, highs and lows in life. You got to remember what King Solomon said, what his ring said. His ring said this too will change. Nothing in life stays the same.
Speaker 2:So, at some point you'll be back on a high, but going through the valleys is tough, and so you just read verse 28, which says and interestingly enough, when I drive down to the house that we're going to flip. This is on the end of the church as I drive into the town just south or just north of where the house is.
Speaker 2:But come to me. All who are weary and burdened. I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest in your souls, for my yoke is easy, my burden is light. Well, what's that mean? Does it mean come to me and everything and life's going to be easy? I don't read it that way. There's other times where Jesus said look, follow me. Not going to be easy. Pick up the cross and follow me. Following me is not going to be easy. Pick up the cross and follow me.
Speaker 2:I think what I get from that is, if we truly accept Jesus and we can put our full trust in him the old trust fall thing get up on the table and fall into Jesus' arms, so to speak. That means that we can then breathe easier. Look, jesus has this. It doesn't mean that day to day, we're going to just go huh, nothing matters. As a matter of fact, if we went through life like that without a care, it'd be a pretty chaotic life. You need to have something that gets you up in the morning, something that you're striving for, whatever that is whether it's this podcast, coaching kids, teaching kids building water plants, what Adam's in the middle of now, whatever that is. And so you're going to have those worries, those concerns, but I think if we can accept Jesus overall, the overarching is look, we can rest, we don't, because we can't save ourselves anyway. We give ourselves to Jesus Now we have that comfort of.
Speaker 2:But there are other times where Jesus, talking to the sermon on the Mount, where he says look, the way is narrow, the gate's small, you will find it. You know. It's not like, oh, life's going to be easy because you follow me. As a matter of fact, it's going to be harder. He told his disciples that 11 of the 12 were martyred. So they certainly had tough lives just because they were followers of Jesus. So it's kind of a trust me, come to me and trust me and your burden will be light. But that don't mean your life will be easy necessarily. Yeah, your thoughts are Adam.
Speaker 3:Yeah, somewhat similar to that. But you know, first, I mean, obviously this is something that's been weighing on your mind a lot and you know, I'd first start by saying that you're not alone in it. Right.
Speaker 3:You know and I'm not minimizing what you're going through by any means, no but you know, everybody's facing struggles of some sort and I think we as people and I think sometimes us as men we don't want to ask for help or we think we can fix it on our own. Yeah, you know we're fixers and I think there's times where we can get ourselves in trouble with that because we're afraid to ask for help or to, uh, you know what do, what we really need to do in this, when we talk about, you know, come to me all you are weary and burdened. I'll give you rest, but beyond that, you have to be able to fully surrender. That too, and that is the hard part, because we don't surrender is not easy in anything in life. Yeah, and you know, when we want to fix it on our own, we can be pretty stubborn about things. It builds on itself too.
Speaker 2:Even sharing it. Go back to Jesus saying I am gentle and humble in heart. If you're a humble person, a humble man, in today's society, you don't share your victories because you don't want it to come off like you're bragging. Very often you know if we have something substantial in our life carter's graduation or you know whatever, right, yeah, we'll share it and celebrate it. But a lot of times we just go, yeah, okay, I'll just keep that to myself. We certainly don't share our problems very well, yeah and so it.
Speaker 2:It can be read as nobody else is having this problem. Well, no, they're just not sharing it either. And then how do you help each other? You can sit with each other. You might give advice, although I found out, almost every time I give advice, I give advice.
Speaker 1:I'm getting out of the advice business.
Speaker 2:But yeah, it's just the sharing, not only trusting Jesus, but trusting brothers in Christ. I can't tell you how many times I've so. For those listening that don't know, adam and I work together, I can't tell you how many times I've went into his office and another co-worker and friend with a problem or something that's just on my mind, that's bothering me and it's like, hey, I've had this going on and just to get to bounce it off of somebody and get their opinion.
Speaker 3:Yeah, helps a lot yeah, and, and you know, beyond that, to go a little further back, you know, david and I have known each other, for I was in high school still when we first met so we've had the opportunity to, uh, to do a lot of life together at this point. You know, been through the highs and the lows, and the good and the bad and, um, everything in between really. So. And then you know, we've been friends since, since I was in my middle teen years and now we've had the chance to also be co-workers for the past 16 plus years. So we do get to share a lot of life together, and having people that you're comfortable with to that point is also very beneficial.
Speaker 2:Where do you find Jesus? I mean, you find him in the Word, right, he is the Word, he's the Word incarnate. So you find him there. But Jesus, when he left earth, when he ascended, he basically handed the football off and said here, run with it, take this gospel and take it all over the world. Well, who does that? Well, other brothers in Christ and sisters I'm not, I'm just saying brothers, because there's three guys here, but yeah, brothers and sisters in Christ, that's where you find Jesus, that's where I find Jesus.
Speaker 2:I find God in all kinds of things, but where do I find the help? In prayer, meditation, in the Word, but then in fellow brothers, sisters in Christ. So when you're going through something, be it good or bad, that's always a good place to turn. A matter of fact, two sermons ago, one of the things that was pointed out was thomas. You know, when jesus returns after the resurrection and the scripture will tell you that thomas wasn't there and so, and that leads to thomas doubting. You know the doubting thomas situation. Well, thomas had withdrawn.
Speaker 2:It's like I can't take this. The guy that we dedicate our life to just died. Now what? Where he should have drawn him closer to his brothers in Christ and he would have been there. And we can all do that. We can all go. I got, got this. Or, like you said, just withdraw and and be angry or sad or whatever that case, depressed, whatever word you want to use.
Speaker 1:yeah no, you're 100 right. Like overthinking things for me is, I think, what gets myself in the most trouble, like is it's so easy to go down so many different avenues when you start doing that and when you don't want to lay your problems into someone else's lap because you know that they've got things that they're struggling with, even though, like I know 100 that I would be willing to talk to brady carter, basically by the only two that I friends, like good friends, close friends that I have, like that, like I would you know three in the morning I'd go talk to them if I needed to or go see them, whatever, and I and I know that they would do the same. But it's like I don't want to put that on someone else, that it's my problem. Let me fix it or find a way to fix it first, and then you know, maybe after that. Um, so that is hard thing, like you said too, to add them to, like surrender it, and hard thing, like he said to, to add them to, like surrender it, and like there's problems. Now I say this as I'm like still trying to figure like this stuff out, like I, but like the understand that there's sometimes answers that we don't have or will get, and that that we need to give that to jesus and trust him, that he one already knows the answer and how things are going to play out, um, and that he is the, the comfort that we need with it. I guess I this is one another part that I'm pretty I don't want to say embarrassed about.
Speaker 1:I'm upset with myself about, for sure, but I went to church with Brady and Zoe last Thursday and I was one of those days where I was just kind of annoyed by really a lot of things and long day, whatever, and I'm rushing, I'm like I want to go to church with them and get there. And I get there and I, the, the music starts and I'm sitting there just getting more and more angry and I'm like when is this stupid song gonna get over? Gosh, I just like this just isn't a song I enjoy, right, like I don't know, even know what the song was. I was already went in with a bad attitude as part of the problem and I was like can the song just end? And then song ends, obviously, the, the service goes on, and part of the message that I guess I remember hearing um is again like the longer I sat there, the more just annoyed I got, and I was like then I get mad at myself for getting annoyed, so I'll sit there anyways.
Speaker 1:Um, they said something about like, when you are struggling with things, to just just go take the next step, take the next step, go the next day, trust that, um, god's got a plan, uh, that you don't need to worry about 10 steps down the line. Basically, you just take the one in front of you. And I was just like it's so dumb, that's what I feel like I've been doing and it's not gotten any better. Like I just don't feel like I've moved anywhere and it's just like I just I'm just getting mad at like, but then I'm like, okay, that's the only option you know, like to take that one step, but and then the service gets over and I just walk right out and I don't say a word to brady and zoe and I just again like I was, like I'm, I guess I I didn't completely apologize to brady, but if you're listening to this, I'm I do apologize um, he texts after he's like you good, and I just ignored him for the next few days because I was like it's not his problem.
Speaker 1:I need to figure out how not to be mad about things that really I have no control over. And it was a long weekend to sit and be mad at myself about after the fact, because I'm like how dumb you have to be to do that to someone who cares about you and to myself, and like it's not something that I need to hold on to, like I don't know why I'm not trying to turn to Jesus more in these moments that I feel weaker.
Speaker 2:That is a learned response. I just made a note while you were talking. One thing that you did well is you were present. You showed up to church, even though you said I showed up with a bad attitude but you still went.
Speaker 2:A lot of people would have I ain't going went. A lot of people would. I ain't going, I'm turning around, I ain't going um being. And you've heard me tell the story about my cancer surgery and all that laying there in a neck brace, not able to move and just being present with god. There's something to that now, sometimes for me, it gave me comfort. For you, it sounds like it convicted you. You're like this is stupid, why am I acting this way? But never is being present with God bad, so that's a good thing. But what I'm hearing you say is exactly what we started talking about was. The next step is well, where do we find Jesus?
Speaker 2:And so in our friends and brothers and sisters in Christ. So even though you have this feeling of I'll deal with this, they don't have to do because you know Brady has always got some things going- on with. Mason and all that stuff, but nobody at this table, no Christian that I know, would say look, I got my own problems, deal with it. They will always they may not have the answer may not have the fix, but they'll always listen and let you know you're not on your own. We're here that those kinds of things.
Speaker 2:Sometimes that's annoying yeah uh, yeah, I've told the story. I uh wanted to be a great basketball player. Andy kaufman was my classmate in high school, but he's also my hero. Uh, we've since became friends, but I wanted to be like him, and a lot of a lot of guys did. I was no andy kaufman. Uh, I might have played basketball about like the comedian andy kaufman, um, and I would complain to my grandmother about it's. It's like why can't I be? And she'd say, well, you just weren't. God didn't give you that gift. He gave you a different gift. There's probably kids that would like to be. He gave you the gift to sing. I don't want the gift to sing. I want the gift to shoot the basketball. Over the years, I've learned to appreciate the fact that I mess around with music and do this stuff, um, but it it's not what you want to hear. Right.
Speaker 2:It's like I have my plan, I have the way I want it to go and I prayed about it. Yeah, God, you and I know this. We've worked this out Right. I told you yeah. Uh and then when it doesn't work out exactly like we thought or want, frustrating and you don't want to hear the answer of in god's time or god has a plan, that sounds like a cop-out answer. I've been there. It's like yeah, yeah, I've heard that.
Speaker 1:Um even though it's true, right, and it's not that you don't believe you don't believe it it's just like I guess, like more I want to hear you're right, you're like your. Your heart knows it, but your flesh is like no, no. But I want this. I want something to go my way and I want it now.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's. That's some of it too. Is that the timing is hard? To understand at times, yeah.
Speaker 2:You're a wrestler, right, so Jacob wrestled with God. Yeah, same thing we're all doing. Jacob had a physical wrestling match with God. We wrestle with God all the time.
Speaker 1:Just to pause for a second. I heard that yesterday and I actually didn't know that. Oh yeah, I was like, seriously, yeah, it's funny you bring that up, it's just something I heard the other day and I was like, how have I not known that?
Speaker 2:I guess You've got to believe God wasn't trying real hard, right, just like yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Sorry not to interrupt your point there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but we all do it, we all wrestle with God, and so it's a learned. Well, it goes back to trust, but it's a learned response. Whenever you have a problem and I still struggle with it Most of us react in a way of how can I fix this? Where we should, as Adam just said a few minutes ago, our first response should be to surrender to God and go to Him first, and then we may have to come up with a solution, but at least we went to God, been present and then go from there. Then again our community, ourian body of christ church, uh, and then eventually it gets down to your friends and down to what are you going to do? Uh, you can't, you can't say okay, I talked to god, I went to church, I spoke to my christian friends and then I went to that heroin den and fixed it right that's not gonna work right yeah, it's.
Speaker 1:It's something that I guess. Over the past couple days I feel like I've felt better about how I'm handling it, I guess, and trying to give more of it or trying to give all of it to Jesus, but slowly, slower than I should.
Speaker 1:I guess, um, it. It kind of goes back to um like not get just getting the answers that you wish you had and that could be to prayers. You said five years ago or five minutes ago and it's funny, I started like almost laughing a second ago and you're talking to adam because it was like I specifically prayer. I said, um, I guess it's about four to four years ago now, asking God to like help me be more patient. And I've just, man, it's a it's a tough one to try to try to get through when you feel like you're going through that uh, learning part, I guess, of of being patient, it's you probably are more patient oh, I, I bet I am it, just you, just in moments you don't.
Speaker 2:Yeah, feel it yeah it's just not fun.
Speaker 3:No, patience is never fun.
Speaker 1:No, but that's like the big thing for me is just like I know exactly where I was sitting, like I could picture me saying that prayer, and now I'm like having to learn it or display it a little bit, and I'm just like it feels like you're failing every time that you realize that you're not being patient. And then, like I said, it goes like me overthinking, I let it go into so many other things and I'm like, okay, I'm making up things in my head that really aren't a problem that I'm mad with to begin with. It's just easy to pile more things onto it when shouldn't be yeah yeah, the idea.
Speaker 2:And again going back to what adam said, the idea of surrender. So jesus whole gospel is based on surrender. I mean he, you know, towards the end of his life. Um, he doesn't, you know, he's praying in the garden of gethsemane. He didn't necessarily want to go through what he's facing either and he asked, asked if there's a different way.
Speaker 2:Let it be known. But he trusts in the Father and follows that path and thank God he did. The idea of surrender is not easy for anyone, but I think for males especially. You know, I can fight my way, yeah, uh well, sometimes, and I go back to my cancer story. But laying in bed I finally said to god out loud I can't do this. Yeah, I got all this stuff going on and I can't do anything about it. I can only lay here. So it's on you, god, and I'm giving it up to you. And it was a few weeks later. I was laying in bed and I couldn't hardly get. I had to barrel roll and all this stuff and candy came in late at night, like one in the morning, and she said hey, the we don't have any hot water.
Speaker 2:Well, just a reaction. I get out of bed and I go in and our water heater is such that to look into the sight glass to see the flame, you got to lay on the floor and get your head in a weird spot. And I went in there and got down on the floor and turned my head and with my neck surgery, I felt a pop and and just pain and I'm like and I was so mad, like talking about your anger, I became instantly angry and that's my go-to as well. I have, uh, I have had anger issues getting better as I get older. But and I looked and the pilot light was out.
Speaker 2:Anyway, long story short, I got in the truck, took off that night, I was so mad and, uh, I just started yelling in the truck by myself, just screaming, and then got that out and had a conversation with God again and said I can't do this. I can't even light a pilot light on my water heater. You know, it was just so frustrating but I wasn't given. Even though I wanted to give things up to God, I was still trying to fix every problem that came along on my own and I couldn't do it, still can't do it, there's still. I still can't move my neck the way I want to. Yeah, that's a specific instance, but we all have specific uh, whatever we're going, yeah, it's.
Speaker 1:I guess it makes me feel a little bit better that what you just said a second ago about yelling, like it was. Like the other day, like I was, I was doing the same thing, I, I was yelling until I literally like lost my voice. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I was like and then I, then I like that night I was like, dude, you are so dumb, so stupid, stupid. Like what do you think you're doing? Like who do you think you are, kind of thing, and like I was like yelling until you lost like I literally lost my voice. Yeah day I was a little bit better, but like I prayed on it after and and I had to communicate to God a little bit more respectfully, I guess.
Speaker 3:More of a prayer of lament instead of yelling.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but it is. It is comforting in a sense. Yeah, but it is comforting in a sense want to hear people you know and care about having similar situation not situation being the same, but experiences.
Speaker 2:And reactions, yeah, reactions. It's not the only time, and I wasn't yelling at God, necessarily, in the truck I was just releasing, I was so angry, you know you. So again, in my specific instance, you're the, you're the man of the house, you're the leader of the family. You, as adam said earlier, we're fixers. I've never seen a problem. I'm like, oh, I can fix that always. Uh, and then all of a sudden you can't and it's just just driving me crazy, uh. And so I just screaming into the night, basically until until you wear yourself out. You're like, okay, got that out now. Now, god, you want to talk about this again and tell me what I'm supposed to do? Cause. And again I just tried that word surrender and said, look, I can't do this, I can't. So I need help. I don't know where to turn. Um, uh, if he listens to this podcast, I got a son who was in plumbing at time. He could have turned to him he's probably off.
Speaker 3:He's probably at your house, but no, I'm picking on carter well, and you know, in that situation the, the, the pilot light, wasn't the the real problem there no no, it's just what right it's. It was things that had built up to that point and the pilot lights what brought it out. That was the you know the, absolutely the breaking point.
Speaker 3:You know and that's what I see with with me, if something's going on, it'll build up over time. Whatever it is, because again I want to, I'm going to fix it on my own. You know, I don't need anybody to help with this, and then it'll come out on something very insignificant. You know that.
Speaker 1:That really shouldn't be too angry about at all but, that's, that's where it shows up, that's where it manifests itself, but that's not the real problem right, and that's what I meant when I said it's easy to find other things, yeah, to be angry at and mad about when, when it's kind of already present yeah, it's, it's there, and so everything is easy to be to find anger.
Speaker 3:And I mean, if you ever figure out how to fully um, fix that, let me know.
Speaker 1:I don't think I ever will.
Speaker 2:Because the real problem often is, it's something you're not going to talk about, so, like in my case, because I can't talk about your case, shouldn't talk about your case, but in my case it was this feeling of loss of control, loss of abilities that came easy to me and all of a sudden I can't do these things and and you get frustrated and, like adam said, it built up over a few weeks. Like I'm just sitting here in this chair, I have my wife putting pillows under my feet, under my arms, feeding me all this stuff, and you just, you're just angry about it. But you don't lash out at her who's bringing you pudding, because obviously she did nothing wrong, and you just let that brew and then something eventually flips the switch. Uh, and so you know that that's probably the most common way that these things manifest. Uh, I'm not going to yell at at the nurses or the doctors, not their fault either, it's nobody's fault. And that makes it even worse. It's like I've got nobody to yell at except I'll just yell into the night. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I think again, I'm still trying to get myself not myself trying to, with God to get a better grip on things, I guess. But I guess it kind of boils down to like feeling alone. I guess it's like I said I have two good friends, brady and Carter. I have plenty of other people I'm friends with, but not in a sense that I'm going to hang out with or communicate with on a daily basis, I guess.
Speaker 1:And Brady it's weird talking about though, because they're they're part of this but like they're brady and zoe, they've got things going on, they've got two kids that they got to worry about every every day, and then carter's been gone the last 16 weeks. So it's like, okay, I hate coming home is just sit here, stare at the wall for the next three hours, count down the time to go to bed, go to bed, wake up, do the same thing and then, like you hate the weekends Cause it's just like, well, what do you do to fill time? And that was another part of the reason. Like during that sermon I kind of got angry sitting there. It was like and I've had other people tell me it's like, well, you just need to find distractions.
Speaker 1:It's like, well, the distractions let the the. I guess to me they might be a distraction for that two hours or three hours, whatever, but then, after that distraction's done, it's just a. It feels like a bigger lump at the end of it, like when you're done to, to have to not release, but like that you have to deal with now, because it's just like it's just sat in you and again, overthinking doesn't help, but treating a symptom instead of the the cause.
Speaker 1:You know, taking some ibuprofen for something that hurts instead of, but, like I, healing. And I think, like I said, david said too, it's like I guess it was convicting because it also is how you have to deal with it Like just keep taking that step, to keep moving forward, I guess, and trusting God that things are going to go the way he plans and that ultimately, we don't have a ton of control if we're going to put our faith in him Well, even for people that don't. But I think you get my point, yeah.
Speaker 2:Being alone is a tough.
Speaker 2:I'm a person who does not like to be alone yeah I just don't never have, uh, I don't know if that comes from the way I was brought up, what, or just certain people that way. I am very social, yeah, uh, and because and my grandfather was that way when my grandmother would leave to go to see her mother, he would always have me come stay with him, like when he's afraid of the dark. He's just I want to sit there and stare at the wall. Yeah, and I think about, uh, older people who lose their spouse, the ones who can stay active they seem to do really well. The ones who just sit there and stare at the wall, wait for the sun to go down, go to bed, they tend to deteriorate.
Speaker 2:We're supposed to be. You know, scripture will tell you we're not supposed to be alone. Uh, that's why we get married, that's why we have community. And you're right, just distracting that, as Adam said, treating the symptom and not the cause. It can work for a while, but most people want to have somebody to say did you see that or did you hear this? Just to have a conversation about it, to know that they cared.
Speaker 2:And so it's really tough, and I've told my story about how long it took for me to have my first date. It's like am I the only person in the world that's going to not have a date? And so it's very important for most people to have companionship, be it a wife, girlfriend, best friend, roommate, whatever it is. It certainly is for me, and that can be. Like we said earlier, it builds on itself Like what am I doing wrong, that I don't, that I just have these couple of things or I don't have a mate.
Speaker 2:Whatever the case is, that's a tough one to deal with on a personal level because, like I said, how do you find that person? Well, certainly, staring at the wall for three hours every night. They're probably not going to just show up, yeah. But for someone who's not a, you know, you're not a party or drinker, you're not out at the bars, yeah. So what do you do? Well, you know small group church groups. I know for Adam and I, when we were younger, a lot of my social situations came out of the softball teams. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So you met all these other guys and their girlfriends and you were going to cookouts and doing things that kept you busy, at least kept your mind occupied. And I had this. I got this, got this. Now I consider all the guys we played ball with friends. See him anymore. I see Adam, I see Jamie. That may be it, yeah, but when we see each, other it's always like, hey, right, and so we have that going.
Speaker 2:But um, and then as you get older, you know I got married, had kids. Then our social structure became our kids sports teams. You know the families came along with that, but without that I would have been one. I had one friend in high school really, and there might be people in high school that would tell you that oh yeah, we were friends and we were, but not like you're talking about. I had one still do. He's in florida now so I don't see him anymore. But yeah, those the distractions are fine, but it's the relationship you're looking for.
Speaker 2:You could sit here and stare at that same wall for three hours with someone else sitting there staring at the wall with you, and it's so much better. The wall's better, the color's better. Life is better for people like you and I that are social. There are people in the world that don't want to play around them. There are, but not many, and so it don't matter if you're sitting on this back porch watching limbs sway in the wind, or you're watching the grass grow or you're watching the dog play. It's better with someone One of my good friends, jim Rowland, when several years ago he didn't talk as much as he does now he just was more reserved than he is now as he's gotten older we'd drive to Springfield or St Louis, bloomington, and we may not say a word, but he was there and I was there. We were experiencing the same thing together. We didn't have to vocalize it necessarily.
Speaker 3:Sometimes we did, sometimes we didn't, but it was a better ride because somebody was sitting in the passenger seat and that's that's that relationship that we all kind of crave yeah, there's times to to be solitary, to be alone, to be there with your thoughts, but, um, you know, in reality, you know, being able to, uh, be a part of other people's lives and impact their lives is what it, what it all comes down to.
Speaker 3:I've, I've learned that, the older I've gotten, the more I've realized that, you know, it's just there's so much more satisfaction out of doing things that I enjoy when I get to share them with somebody else. You know, whether it be somebody my age, or teaching kids, or whatever it may be, just the fact that this gift that I've been given, this, this desire that I have, or whatever it may be a hobby, you know that it can. It is there for my enjoyment, but God didn't give it to me just for that. It's there because it can be used for his greater purpose. You know, and that's once I realized, that it brings so much more satisfaction to the, the things that I enjoy yeah, so here's a couple.
Speaker 2:So genesis, uh, chapter two. Then the lord's god said it is not good that the man should be alone. I will make a fit for him. That's, uh, verse 18 and verse 24. Therefore, a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife and become one flesh. So that's one indicator that god doesn't want us to be alone. But here's another ecclesiastes, chapter 4, 9 through 12. Yeah, and, and this, and and this. I don't know if this is helping you, because this is just reinforcing what you're saying I came across this verse the other day, did you okay, so?
Speaker 2:two are better than one because they have a good reward for their toil. Or, if they fall, one will lift up his fellow, but woe to him who is alone when he falls and has not another to lift him up. If two lie together they keep warm. But how can one keep warm alone? And though a man might prevail against one who is alone, two will withstand him. A threefold cord is not broken. So scripture would tell us that we're not really meant to be alone. And so, when we are alone, there's this sense, this innate feeling that why, what are we doing wrong? Well, maybe we're being taught something, we're certainly learning, maybe and this is all maybe but but maybe god's saying look, there's gonna be a period where you're gonna be alone and you're gonna learn things about yourself that are gonna come in handy when, when I do give you this, whatever it is, friend, mate, co-worker, what you know, whatever that companionship is, yeah, that's oh and I'll, and you can come sit at my house. I'm usually alone andy works nights.
Speaker 1:Now let me stare at the wall. There you go. It's um, the past couple days. I've not not the past couple days I've I not not the past couple of days I've.
Speaker 1:I guess I've taken it more serious the past couple of days. It's something I've known, but and maybe you could explain it better either of you but I mean it's it. It's not just I don't, I don't just mean just relationship-wise, I guess, but just in general, but like making Jesus a bigger priority in my life, I guess, and I think of the song what a Friend we have in Jesus. I don't think I've treated Jesus like a friend, or at least a good friend lately, and I think that's maybe part of what I need to take more serious is that Jesus is always with us, and Jesus we can go to him and give him all of our worries and he'll give us rest. And I think that's the part that I probably need to take away the most is that Jesus is the best friend any of us could have. And yeah, I guess that's kind of the main gist of what I think I'm starting to figure out and maybe not showing super well.
Speaker 3:I think you said it well, though I mean, it kind of makes me think how sometimes our stubbornness and our own desire to fix ourselves or not surrender it, I think it can be those times where God can say well, I'm going to have to push you to the point of redemption, then to the point of surrender.
Speaker 1:You don't have another choice right now.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you get to a point where it's like, okay've got, I've got nothing else I can do here, I've got to give this up. Yeah, and you know, I, I think we can. We can, uh, make that harder on ourselves than what we really need to, because we are so stubborn and we don't want to surrender it. But uh, you know he's going to say all right, let's go, and eventually you'll get there, yeah yeah, that's.
Speaker 2:It reminds me. I'm looking it up right now because I want to quote it correctly. Um abram lincoln had a quote quoted, but basically what he was saying I think I know that ain't the one I was thinking of, so to paraphrase, I'm going to quote. Basically, he said that oftentimes, when he came to the end of his self, finally fell to his knees, that's where he found answers. It's two things came to mind when you're, when you're talking. One is when I fall into a sinful way or sin. I go back and think in the tough times, who is there? It's always God, it's always Jesus Like. So why in the good times do I turn to the other side? And Paul talked about that. It's like why do I do bad when I know better?
Speaker 2:Again, paraphrasing and so we all struggle with that a little bit of being a friend, knowing that Jesus is our friend, but being a good friend back. We treat Jesus in a manner that we really wouldn't treat any of our other friends Similar to. You'll get this one day. We treat our wives in a way that we wouldn't treat another woman. They see our true self. They get to catch all the and Jesus sees our true self. We wouldn't have to show him, he would already know our true self.
Speaker 2:He knows our heart't have to show him. He would already know our true self. He knows our heart. But we'll show him we, and then we'll regret it by doing um. And so you tend to do that with ones that you love and trust and know that, no matter what, they're going to love you back in a family sense. My kids know how angry I can get. My wife knows how angry I can get.
Speaker 3:I know how angry he can get.
Speaker 2:Adam knows and Jesus knows People that I love and trust and I know that they will always love me, no matter what. And so it's kind of comforting in a way. It's not the way we should treat Jesus, but it's comforting in this way. That's like way we should treat jesus, but it's comforting in in this way. That's like, yeah, I love jesus that much that I'm I'm not saying this right but but yeah, I'm, I'm willing to show him my true self that's, and not try to hide from him all the time yeah, not to interrupt your other point, but it that's exactly something I heard today actually is if, if you're turning to jesus with your true self, uh, more you're.
Speaker 1:You're probably closer to him than you, than you think you are or have been yeah, and I was like oh, okay that if it makes you feel a little bit better. Um, and it's, it's nice to know again that that other people go through similar yeah.
Speaker 5:I've seen it. I found the quote Go for it Pause.
Speaker 2:I have been driven many times upon my knees by overwhelming conviction that I had nowhere else to go. My own wisdom and that of all about me seemed insufficient. So our president saying, basically what we're saying is what I about me seemed insufficient. So our president was saying, basically what we're saying is what I've got is insufficient. And he says I've been driven to my knees. He didn't even say I willingly go to my knees, I've been driven. As Adam was saying, maybe God is saying look, you're going to be so uncomfortable that you're going to move. Sometimes that's how you move. Things like if you think about uh, cattle's, cattle, moving cattle. What do you use? Sometimes you use cattle prod, it's not now.
Speaker 2:Sometimes you use a carrot yeah, come here, come here other times you're like I ain't got time for the carrot. Yeah, I need to move you, and so sometimes it can be uncomfortable until we get where we're going.
Speaker 3:Yeah I've seen what I would people I would call like the, the strongest and most mature christians that I've ever been around, who have had similar struggles and to where they've even questioned what they're doing, um, question their faith because of it, because they, because they were stuck in a rut, whatever it may be, and they just finally had to fully surrender and it brought them out of it. But it was not easy for them to get there and I think some of it was because it was a place that they didn't think they could get to. They thought they were beyond that. But yet we're an imperfect people, we're fallen people and we can all get to places that we didn't think we would ever be.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Makes sense.
Speaker 2:My other thing that I thought of. You said that you indicated you have a lot of time on your hands where you're just staring at the wall, and then you said later that I'm not you didn't say it exactly like this but I'm not devoting myself to Jesus or spending as much time with him as I should, and so I heard the same thing. I was like I got the time, but I'm not putting it towards Jesus and I'm not trying to call youesus and I'm not. I'm not trying to call you out.
Speaker 2:I'm the same way. I spend a lot of time flipping through youtube shorts. Yeah, well, I could be spending with jesus. My point was going to be you said early in this podcast that some of your high school athletes had discovered this podcast. Maybe that time as a distraction, but also as a way to spend time with Jesus. I don't know the legalities of 17-year-olds. Maybe you invite them to the podcast and get their thoughts on things. They may have questions for you that you guys can throw together. Or maybe it's not the podcast, maybe it's something else, but uh, but if there is time there, it's probably going to be fleeting. Yeah, uh, one day you'll look back and go. I had three hours just stare at the wall uh, that's just the way life is, yeah, yeah uh.
Speaker 2:And so you know, you never know what God has in store or what he wants. I always envy the people who seem to be so sure of what God wants them to do, the path God wants them to take. I wish I had that feeling, because I've been asked when I speak in the pulpit what do you want to do here at this church? My answer is always the same I just want to be helpful to God. What do you want to do here at this church? My answer is always the same no-transcript. He wants me to give a message, but I'm always envious of the person. Oh, I know, this was my calling Felt like I had that, that, and so sometimes I got time. What do you want me to do? Good?
Speaker 1:yeah, well, unless adam has any other thoughts, we're at an hour now, which went fast, and I feel like I still have more things to talk about and ask, but maybe we'll save it for another time I would add one thing yeah, that if I don't say it now, I'll probably forget by next time.
Speaker 3:So but when david was talking earlier about um, you know if you're sitting at home and you're staring at the wall for three hours, but if somebody else is sitting there next to you staring at the wall for three hours, just the same, it's a whole lot better right? That um kind of convicted me of one of my faults. As we turn this around, we've talked about how do we deal with our own problems, but it made me think about helping other people work through their problems. My biggest fault that I've probably not my biggest fault, but one of my faults that I've got is I would struggle to come sit next to somebody for three hours and stare at the wall because I would think I have to fix it. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And that's something that we can't necessarily fix everything and that's hard to understand, and I know I've kind of touched on that earlier. But having the ability to just sit next to somebody when they need that or you know as use the term to walk along beside them, you know, whatever it may be, you know, as they're going through something, you know that is a huge deal because, um, ultimately it comes down to we. We can't fix whatever's going on. We got to surrender that all over and, um, you know, just being present is something that you know can be a huge help to somebody that is going through something.
Speaker 2:To add on to that real quick. So Carter's police academy graduation. The chaplain told the story of a UFC fighter who was being interviewed I shared this at church a couple weeks ago who was being interviewed after a win and he was talking about the abuse that he's seen and suffered as a child and he's seen his mom being abused and he said I always thought that my dad would kill my mom at some point and he said I would try to fight him off. He's a little kid and eventually that did kill him and the interviewer wasn't a pastor or anything. The interviewer stops the interview and says I can't fix that, but I can sit with you and sometimes that's enough.
Speaker 3:You just sit there and Somebody knows they're not alone in it that way, yeah they point and go.
Speaker 2:There's an ant on that wall that you're staring at.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I see.
Speaker 2:That's enough.
Speaker 1:Yep, yeah, well, I appreciate you guys. And one I don't have to sit here by myself and stare at that wall and try to talk into this microphone, um, but also just you guys and everything you're able to share and talk about I would have guessed it had been 30 minutes, but I know it goes fast. Yeah, you guys, when it's it's, it's more enjoyable too and it's more conversational.
Speaker 2:Yeah, instead of trying to go like yeah, because we didn't even talk about jesus and john being cousins, skipped right to the end of that and skipped all the yeah um, but um, maybe another time Of all the verses in chapter 11, that last paragraph is what stands out to me the most, anyway.
Speaker 3:Right it is. Not to minimize the rest of them, but that's the one that, as I'm reading through it, I'm like, oh yeah, that's it, yep.
Speaker 1:It's, I guess we keep going, but like it's, it almost seems so different than the rest of it too, cause it's like Jesus Jesus is talking about like go tell John this, tell John this, this is what happened, prophets. And then it's like he talks about repentance.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's like, look, be better off if you'd repent. But then he gets to this yeah, this one set of verses it's like where we take our comfort. It's like here's the thing, uh, but you can have comfort with me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, an hour and five minutes on three verses basically, which is just fun yes, it is well. You guys can find us on instagram at life beside christ podcast, or email us at life beside christ pod at gmailcom. And we will see you guys next time.
